"Why did fans leave LiveJournal... ?"

[vanillalime]

Well, if you're reading this, you probably already know the answer. A better question might be, "Why are you still here?" Heh.

(My answer: Because I'm as stubburn as a mule and also lazy.)

Last week, Slate posted an article/interview about a study that analyzed the migration patterns of various fandom platforms over the last 20+ years:

Why did fans leave LiveJournal, and where will they go after Tumblr?

I found it fairly interesting, although I'm slightly skeptical about much of the study's methodology. (To me, 1,866 survey partipants recruited via Tumblr doesn't sound like a representative sample, and there's no apparent breakdown by age, which I think would have been extrememly insightful.)

(ETA: I now realize I typo'd "participants" into "partipants" but it made me LOL too much to correct it. :D)

Here's the bit I found most informative, a graph from the study that summarizes platform usage over time:



One of the main points they made was that the biggest exodus from LJ (in 2012) actually happened a few years AFTER they'd pissed everybody off (in 2008), in theory because LJ users didn't really have an alternate platform to go to at the time. (Unfortunately, there was no discussion of the notable, albeit not overwhelming, increase in Dreamwidth users.)

And so, that's their explanation for why Tumblr and AO3 took off, because they finally offered viable fandom alternatives (Tumblr for the social, AO3 for the archive). Which, duh.

Actually, I'm mostly surprised by the fact that LJ has stayed relatively steady since 2014, although the author says that can be attributed to differing interpretations by respondents for what could be considered "active" participation (which, IMO obviously should have been something that was standardized -- like I said, some of the methodology seems sloppy).

I did like the study's conclusion, which basically seems to be, "People are slowly realizing that Tumblr isn't all that it was cracked up to be." Which is what I've been saying for about 3 years now. But the fact that the biggest question, "Where will everyone go from here?" remains unanswered is scary. I've watched the Oz fandom get smaller and smaller with each passing year as its members don't seem to be going anywhere else, they just go. And I wonder if other fandoms will likewise experience not so much fragmentation (as bad as that is), but downright disappearance. :(

Comments

[mazephoenix.livejournal.com]

Hi..waves at you. yeah, it's sad and I hope we can still stay those of us that are left. Oh man tumblr..much as it's sometimes fun I'm sick of porn bot's trying to friend me..while here..umm..russian bots watch me? I wonder how DW will fare?

[vanillalime]

*enthusiastically waves back*

I was thrilled with the turnout for Oz Magi, especially when I saw that several older fans had returned for it. But then the recent Oz Drabble Tree didn't get much action, and that bummed me out again.

SO MANY PORN BOTS on tumblr! When I first created the Oz Fandom tumblr account, I'd just automatically follow back anyone who followed it, because I thought it was the polite thing to do, and I was hoping to there were new Oz peeps out there who I hadn't met yet. Then I started taking a closer look... ugh. I bet 80% of its followers now are bots.

(I noticed that a lot of the Russian bots here who have been"liking" posts are strikethroughs now, so I guess LJ is at least paying attention to the situation.)

I do like certain aspects of tumblr. So many wonderful gif sets. And kittens! But a true sense of community and the discussion aspect of fandom just aren't there, even among people I've known for years from my earliest days on LJ. And that's what I really miss.

[the-emu.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the graph!

A representative sample recruited from Tumblr doesn't represent me.

My inner child dreams that one day e-mail lists will make a comeback. A format that made for substantial discussions, and community, and you didn't feel the spying eye of corporate overlords.

[vanillalime]

You're welcome!

Yeah, I'm not sure why they relied on Tumblr to recruit participants (not "partipants" like I wrote in my post, LOL). It's like going to an ice cream parlor, and asking people what kinds of dessert they like. Don't be surprised if they all mention ice cream.

While I get why people left LJ, I don't understand how Tumblr became its replacement for the "social" aspect of fandom. There's so little interaction among its users, regardless of the common interests. The inability to have a discussion there is why the people I met ended up migrating to Twitter, so we could actually "talk" to one another, even if it's only in 280-character increments. None of them were even aware of the existence of LJ.

(BTW, I remember you coining the phrase "the gonorrhea of the internet" to describe Facebook once, and I've been thinking about that a lot lately. It's so accurate.)

[the-emu.livejournal.com]

lol. That does sound like me.

I used to think everyone had moved to DW, so I finally started using it, but it's deadly quiet, too.

Though as far as the LJ/DW demise, maybe there's also an element that my online time used to be spent online friendships (ie. fannish people). Thanks to dirty facebook, I now all my RL friends available online, so the regular life patter that used to go on LJ now goes to those people on FB.

Dear lordy, I miss being fannish. I miss tunneling my way through an archive of fresh fannish love. I miss juicy fannish discussions that made me think about themes and what-ifs and silly things. I miss feeling creative. I miss writing.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Wow interesting, thanks for sharing that! I’m surprised too that LJ is still as high up in the graph as it is, you always hear about it being completely dead in the eyes of most people, so it’s interesting that it’s above twitter even, and it definitely hasn’t died off as completely as say mailing lists did after everyone moved to LJ. There are still enough of us here and stubbornly clinging on I suppose, at least until we can find a more acceptable alternative than Tumblr :P

And yeah I’ve been hearing for years now that fandom is realising that Tumblr is not all it’s cracked up to be, but I’ve given up on those people ever actually leaving Tumblr. A few years ago there was a lot of discussion there from older fans on how much they miss the LJ heyday, but then none of them did ever come back here :shrugs: It is a shame to me how much communities have died off, I used to find it so helpful when you first come into a fandom and you could find different LJ communities for say fan fiction, fan videos, episode discussion etc, and it was all archived and there for fandom newbies. Tumblr is such a free for all in comparison. At least there is Ao3 for archiving fic anyway

[vanillalime]

In the interview I linked, the person who conducted the survey said that (apparently) a lot of people still use LJ specifically for role-playing purposes. Which is something I've never gotten into, so I really wasn't aware of that.

I used to find it so helpful when you first come into a fandom and you could find different LJ communities for say fan fiction, fan videos, episode discussion etc, and it was all archived and there for fandom newbies.

YES. That was one of the disappointments when discovered "Stranger Things" and was feeling fannish about it. There are tons of fic for it on AO3 and dozens of tumblrs devoted to it, but I couldn't find any traditional communities where people were discussing the show in a fannish way. There was nothing on LJ (not a surprise), nor Dreamwidth (more of a surprise). No challenges, fests, exchanges, etc. And this is for a current, supposedly "hot" show.

To me, fandom these days feels like having an party invitation that has no address. :/

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I know exactly what you mean, there doesn’t see to be the kind of fandom organisation that we used to have when it comes to putting challenges together, or mods constantly sorting memories in the Lj communities so that everyone can find exactly what they’re looking for (so helpful!)

Actually I have started to get into reddit more recently when it comes to discussion of tv shows, the users over there are pretty active, but still in some ways it all feels as anonymous as tumblr, it is that sense of community we once had on LJ that I really miss...

[fanfromfla.livejournal.com]

Speaking of "Stranger Things" ... Did you detect a huge Lee vibe from Billy the mean brother in Season 2? I finally got around to watching the second season and just felt like the actor was channeling Lee! Even my hubby kept saying, "This would have been a perfect role for Lee!"

[mrs-sweetpeach.livejournal.com]

"I'm as stubburn as a mule and also lazy." -- Me too. I'm also old and finding change increasingly difficult as I continue to age.

Interesting article and I doubt I'd have spotted it without you. So thanks for the pointer.

I find tumblr weird and kinda unfriendly. My feed may be particularly odd though as it is 96% gay porn, 3% cute animal pictures, and 1% pics of dead musicians and actors. What I don't like most is that there doesn't seem to be able to find a way to talk to people or ask about posts. Where did it originate, why do you like it, that sort of thing.

Twitter is more fun as I can respond but it is not good (as far as I can see) for fic or gaining friendship in a community.

I would not be surprised if email lists made a comeback but I don't expect them to. I worry about censorship and also that folks in private lists might find themselves on a very different type of list. I fear authoritarian presidents and governments.

Back to work with me before I fall even further behind on things that actually pay my bills....

[vanillalime]

What I don't like most is that there doesn't seem to be able to find a way to talk to people or ask about posts.

YES. Exactly. I've met some lovely new fandom friends on Tumblr, but we all ended up migrating to Twitter together so that we could "talk" to each other (even if it's in short 280-character increments). Tumblr's very visual, and it's great for that, but I just don't see it as a means for true social interaction.

My oldest fandom friends are active Tumblr users, though, so I still use it to keep up on what they're into these days. Unfortunately, none of it holds interest for me, but I don't want to lose that last bit of connection I have to them.

I fear authoritarian presidents and governments.

For very good reason, I'm afraid. I feel like people are trying to manipulate me no matter what social media platform I turn to. :(